Friday, August 30, 2019
RODNEY  COX: 
LEADING  FROM YOUR STRENGTHS 
&
 JOHN  TRENT AND KEN VOGES DISC PROFILES
VS. SCRIPTURE

On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 12:09 PM 'James Sundquist' via Information <information@ministryinsights.com> wrote:
Dear Rodney Cox,
I discovered your website for your LFYS Personality Assessment based on DISC.
I have just two questions for you:
1.  I notice that Saddleback Church is a client of yours.  But Saddleback uses Rick Warren’s SHAPE Personality Profile.  So I am baffled why they would be a one of your clients?
2.  I am sure you are aware that Rick Warren and his publisher Zondervan have promoted that his Purpose Driven Life book (which contains his SHAPE) is “the bestselling nonfiction hardback book in history”.  But this claim has been forensically documented to be completely false.
Proof:
Rick Warren and his Purpose Driven Life book and call authors who oppose or expose its teachings as “slanderers” but offers to evidence. Will here is just one piece of evidence about Warren. He claims his PDL book is the “bestselling nonfiction hardback book in history”, as does he publisher Zondervan. Only one problem, the claim is totally false advertising and fraudulent marketing. But you should demand proof. So here it is. This is just one chart of the bestselling nonfiction books in history (proving that Warren's is nowhere near the top and never was):
https://amos37.com/james-sundquist-open-letter-on-zondervan-rick-warren/
***
I look forward to your response!

 Kindest regards in Christ,

 James Sundquist
Eaglemasterworksproductions.com

 On Aug 19, 2019, at 3:32 PM, Rodney Cox - Founder/President Ministry Insights <rcox@ministryinsights.com> wrote:

James,

Before we go to deep into this conversation I would kindly request some clarification.
  • Who are you writing on behalf of?
  • What are your intentions?
  • Are you a member of or what relationship do you have to Zondervan or Saddleback Church?
Regards,

Rodney

         rodneycox | founder/president
(480) 951-9888 (7012)
www.ministryinsights.com
****
From: James Sundquist <rock.salt@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Q for Rodney Cox re Saddleback Church client
Date: August 19, 2019 at 4:50:23 PM EDT
To: Rodney Cox - Founder/President Ministry Insights <rcox@ministryinsights.com>

Dear Rodney,

Thank you again for your response.

I also happen to see a Christian (not at Saddleback) endorse both your Strength Assessment and Tony Robbins.  That surprised me because Robbin’s is known as being New Age (i.e., the antithesis of Christianity.

I did a documentary on DISC, William Moulton Marston, and Carl Jung, I invite you to read.  I have attached it and entreat you to read it:

I also wrote an article on Rick Warren’s SHAPE Personality Profile for two Conservative Christian Theological Journals which I also invite you to read at:

Thank you again for responding.  

Kindest regards in Christ,

James Sundquist

COMMENT: Even if I were an employee of Zondervan or Saddleback, why is that relevant, if my questions are legitimate? And if there is fire in the theater, you only listen to employees of the theater?


On Aug 19, 2019, at 4:22 PM, Rodney Cox - Founder/President Ministry Insights <rcox@ministryinsights.com> wrote:

James,

There have been over 120 Saddleback staff members complete the Leading From Your Strengths assessment. Our assessment is used for a variety of different purposes but in the case of Saddleback Church they are using for teambuild and hiring of staff.

Regards,

Rodney

         rodneycox | founder/president
(480) 951-9888 (7012)
www.ministryinsights.com
COMMENT:

I did ask this question in my letter responding to Rodney Cox. But I have since learned that according in Linkedin, Saddleback Church shows 665 Employees: Source: https://www.linkedin.com/company/saddlebackchurch

So I can't help but why only 120 out of 665 employees took Rodney Cox's Personality Assessment and the rest didn't? That's only 18+%, less than 1 in 5. What ever happened to the other 545 staff members? This reminds me of handy out candy to 1 of your 5 kids while the rest of the kids go into meltdown for being left out and slighted.


From: James Sundquist <rock.salt@verizon.net>
Subject: P.s. Re: Q for Rodney Cox re Saddleback Church client
Date: August 19, 2019 at 6:20:06 PM EDT
To: Rodney Cox - Founder/President Ministry Insights <rcox@ministryinsights.com>
Cc: info@ministryinsights.com

Dear Rodney,

Your Ministry and Personality Profile states and your bio affirming this is your life-long message and that your message is biblical:

“Leading From Your Strength” vs. Scripture where the Lord said the the Apostle Paul:

“And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.” 
2 Corinthians 12:9-10
I hope and pray that you reconsider your campaign and obey Scripture.

Sincerely in Christ,

James Sundquist

From: James Sundquist <rock.salt@verizon.net>
Subject: Followup re your LFYS, DISC, and Rick Warren
Date: August 20, 2019 at 5:28:36 PM EDT
To: Rodney Cox - Founder/ President Ministry Insights <rcox@ministryinsights.com>

Dear Rodney and Leigh, and Ministry Insights,,

I am going to update my documentary on DISC I sent you to add you to the list of major promoters of DISC.

But I have to ask you if you are OK with promoting and blowing wind into Rick Warren’s sails and his staff who have and continue to promote the myth that his PDL book is the “bestselling nonfiction hardback book in history”? If you are a Christian don’t you champion truth, as Christ and his Apostles command?  And Paul said “expose the deeds of darkness” not conceal them in Ephesians.  Are you going to go on for years and remain silent in the face of iniquity?  Because if this is your intention, I must warn you of the Apostle John’s warning:

2 John 10-11 King James Version (KJV)

10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
Or perhaps you might consider using Marston’s Wonder Woman’s golden lasso to squeeze the truth out of Rick Warren.

Finally, do you tell all of the Christians that take your LFYS assessment the dark side of Marston and all of his lifestyle and philosophies that collided with Christ and Scripture?

I wanted to give you one final opportunity to respond before I amend my documentary on DISC.

Sincerely in Christ,

James Sundquist

From: James Sundquist <rock.salt@verizon.net>
Subject: Regarding your censoring me from visiting your website
Date: August 22, 2019 at 5:15:57 PM EDT
To: Rodney Cox - Founder/President Ministry Insights <rcox@ministryinsights.com>

Dear Rodney,

I am fully aware of your blocking me from access to your website, effectively censoring me from questions and comments or reading more of the links that your colleague Leigh Clark sent me.  This is what popped up when I attempted to visit your Ministry Insights site (a number of times):

"Forbidden

You don't have permission to access /product/leading-from-your-strengths-profile/ on this server.
Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request”

 This was quite a shock given that your site and the chat box invites inquiries which invites inquiries by stating: 
                “Chat with Us, we are online!”

[Note, this following paragraph amended that was not in the original letter]?

Another words it was a deceptive trap. What kind of signal does this send others who might visit your site and take the same bait, or to those multitudes who might visit your site, not know that if you oppose them or ask the wrong questions, you may very well shut them down. Is this a recipe for getting recommended? If your profile is such good news and so solid and biblical, you should be instantly in season to defend it and refute any that oppose it, as Paul wrote in Titus. In fact most of whom Paul encountered that approached him strongly opposed him verbally and even physically persecuted him. Yet he was eager to encounter them and even pursue them. So your philosophy is the opposite of what Paul commanded as well as what Peter and Jude instructed. But it is troubling from another perspective too, and that is this. You profess to be a Christian, and so one would assume you would champion truth and obeying Scripture and comply with Christ’s own commands to and that is to come to his living water to drink freely without cost.    You have defied both.  You have forbidden access and made Scripture and Christianity into a means of financial gain that Paul also warned against. And this is a good witness for the Lord, or what your organization calls a “Ministry Insight”? And even if I am the least of these or even a wicked pagan, Jesus said “whomsoever will may come” unto him:
"Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.”  Isaiah 55:1
"And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.” Revelation 21:6
"And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.”  Revelation 22:17

But Revisionist Christianity says “no, you must pay”!

It is true members of Church or Ancient Israel were banished or exiled but that is because they sinned and did not repent.  Example: God judging Miriam for racism and God turned her white with leprosy.  Paul’s instructions to the Church for Church Discipline for immorality.  But sorcery, magic arts and the occult were also an abomination to the Lord.  But DISC, MBTI, SHAPE and a host of other personality profiles are rooted in the occult, numerology and mysticism are likewise an abomination to the Lord, and should not even be named among the saints.  So as Paul said, I am now therefore, the enemy because I tell you the truth about DISC being a thorn bush that can not produce figs?  So you must now render your site “Forbidden” to me?  I answered your questions.  But you refuse to answer most of mine.

JOHN TRENT (who co-authored your first edition of your LFYS book):

Scripture itself declares it is sufficient for training and rebuking in righteousness for every good work and the perfecting of saints, so by Scripture alone are they sanctified by the water of his Word.  No licensing required!  Yet you teach that pastors and elders in the church can only take you so far without going in the realms of your Leading From Your Strengths. As you know this is one of the Five Solas of the Reformation where they marked the Pope and Roman Catholicism as Antichrist.  He was not THE Antichrist, but the religion itself is antichrist.  Yet, you (and Rick Warren) both promote it.  You promote it by declaring these two organizations as resources:
“The Leading From Your Strengths Team-Building Discovery Kit is the Knowing and Living Your Strengths - Catholic Strengths Institute”
and
 “To the Knowing and Leading Strengths - Appleton Catholics Leading from Your Strengths: Team-Building Discovery Kit [Dr John Trent]  Source: “Leading from Your Strengths: Team-Building Discovery Kit   by Rodney Cox”

If DISC or LFYS were truly biblical, the first thing it would do is convict Roman Catholics that their faith is fraudulent and they would repent.  Read this report by former Roman Catholic Priest Richard Bennett for just one proof:


Roman Catholicism is religion in which you co-pay, or Mary co-pays for your salvation.  Biblical Christianity is where Christ FULLY pays for your Salvation.

John Trent (and Gary Smalley) also promoted Chuck Colson, in part via Promise Keepers, who was very Ecumenical (and also worked with Rick Warren. Please read this article by John Robbins at Trinity Foundation:

“Southern Baptist Charles Colson is the most effective propagandist for the Roman Catholic Church in America.”

and

The Counterfeit Gospel of Charles Colson


Even today, Colson's Wilber Force just had Rick Warren as a featured speaker at their national conference and gave a Coptic Christian Mystic their annual award in 2019.

John Trent was also a co-author with Gary Smalley. Here is an excellent review and expose on their book:

Gary Smalley and Dr. John Trent:
Right-Brain/Left Brain Pseudoscience by Martin and Deidre Bobgan

But there is another dimension of John Trent that biblically very troubling.
He is a co-author and co-founder of Cox's Ministry Insights and his LFYS (first edition).  See: https://strongfamilies.com/logb

But he also known as the creator of LOGB personality profile based on four kinds of animals, as though humans, let alone Christians, all fall into one of four categories, one being a breed of dog. In all my years growing up, calling someone a dog was not a compliment, but an insult. But this should raise eyebrows for still another nefarious reason. Islam, a religion billions throughout history, calls Jews descendants of apes and pigs, and Christians as pigs and dogs. Proof: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/muslim-clerics-jews-are-the-descendants-of-apes-pigs-and-other-animals

Pagan religions made graven images of animals, while God gave this as the 2nd Commandment:

“Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.” Exodus 20:2

Except to use them in personality profiles to find your purpose in the church?

The Nazis called Jews mice and vermin and tried to completely exterminate them as a species, killing 6 million Jews. Speaking of Nazis, the supreme paradox and hypocrisy of both Margaret Sanger (Founder and Matriarch of Planned Parenthood abortion principality), and her close friend William Moulton Marston, the inventor of DISC, is that they both came out against Nazism (Marston via is Wonder Woman comic book hero, yet her eugenics was the inspiration and pillar of Hitler's Third Reich that murdered 6 million Jews. Nazis also had an occultic mystical wheel known as the Black Sun aka  Schwarze Sonne. I can't help but wonder if Muslims (Nazi allies) wouldn't love such a profile so long as the results of the assessment identified all Christians as dogs. So why would a Christian want to create even the appearance of evil by designing a profile that has a history of a bad connotation and literal history of destruction? What a legacy! Hindus use animals in Reincarnation, where a human might be reborn as a dog or a dog as human, depending on your works. And a cow is sacred. Yet God says it is appointed for man, ONCE to die and after that the judgment”? And Moses destroyed the Golden Calf.

Beasts (animals) are also used in Scripture to teach prophecy and equip Christians for the End Times. But the images are use to teach eschatology, not personality theory based on animals. The purpose is also to teach judgments on the earth. And the images were explained. In fact, there is not a single animal in all of Scripture that is invoked to describe or discover one's personality. Except when an animal is named in a literal use, it is used a picture or image to described character and as symbols of judgment. A white horse is used to described what Christ is riding when he returns. But a white horse is also used to described what fake messiah would be riding, in other words, the Antichrist, who will be thrown into the Lake of Fire.

John Trent divides us into four animals: LIONS, OTTERS, GOLDEN RETRIEVERS, and BEAVERS! But Trent is not unique in doing this in the church and society. In fact dividing people into four kinds of animals has become pandemic. Likewise, Ken Voge's DISC uses four animals to describe 4 temperaments, just like Gary Smalley has done in his personality profiling where you figure out what animal you are. But animals and humans were created after their own kind, so there can be no biblical justification for the connection, particularly because animal behavior is governed by instinct while human behavior is governed by conscience and the leading of the Holy Spirit...unless you believe in evolution which Carl Jung (DISC roots) and most of the major psychologist theorists believe(d) in.  Evolutionists love integrating animal behavior into their humanist psychology because they think humans are animals...just more highly evolved. And remember, in the Bible, animal-like behavior (i.e., "brute beasts, unreasoning animals") was a sign of a reprobate mind...a judgment that God turns people over to for refusing the knowledge of the truth and what happened to King Nebuchadnezzar because of his pride.  Neither dogs nor any creature but humans have a conscience. God turns the wicked over to brute beasts unreasoning animals...the opposite of a Christian. And you want to take a personality profile to find out what kind of animal you are? We don't want to discover, model our behavior or modify it based on the personality of an animal.  There is no Scriptural foundation for this whatsoever....if anything the Bible says the opposite.  Jesus Christ did not die to save or even sanctify animals because of their sins which is impossible for them to do because of their nature.  And God made animals lower than man. 

Animals are used as images in a positive sense in the Bible, for example Jesus is BOTH the Lion of Judah and the Lamb of God. Lion is also a predator. And sure enough Christ, as The Lion will be a predator when he devours the wicked on the earth. Why does Trent's Animal personality formula have just one animal predator? So, these images (pictures) are used primarily as symbols or images for spiritual and literal rank and authority, sacrifice, prophecy and functions of Jesus Christ, and not to determine or describe personality or to perform behavior divination. Most importantly, when the Bible does use animals as symbols it defines their interpretation and limitation.

By assigning meanings to animals for spiritual purposes is going beyond what is written in Scripture. While Voges uses the lion, otter, bear, and dog, Dr. John Trent divides us into lion, otter, golden retriever (dog), and beaver as does Dr. Gary Smalley. Note all three of them employ dog. Trent and Smalley use Beaver one of the four, but a beaver is rodent. Why just one rodent? Why any? Chris Daniel uses a 4 Animals Assessment where he ask you if you are a GORILLA? FLAMINGO? CHAMELEON? TURTLE? Why does Daniel have a reptile (turtle, and Trent and Smalley don't)? Chameleon concept is not a personality trait in Scripture but a character flaw, meaning two-faced or double-minded. So these kinds of animals are vastly different than Trent's, Voges' or Smalley's list. So they can't all be right when they contradict each other, but they are all wrong. And why don't Trent, Voges, and Smalley use a dragon, a sloth, and elephant, or a viper for temperament types? After all these are animals named in the Bible right? Four different animals were used in Daniel's vision of empires (lion, bear, leopard, and fourth beast with great iron teeth). So why does Trent use lion but not the other three listed of the four animals in the context of one of dreams? But lion (and the other three animals) have nothing to do with personality but represent time frames of when these four empires reigned the earth. And why not not use Golden Calf instead of Golden Retriever? Or why doesn't Trent or Smalley or Voges employ a goat or sheep? But this would present still another problem. The same kind of animal is sometimes presented in the Bible with opposite descriptions, depending on the context. Sheep are used in both a positive and negative connotation. Positive in that Jesus is the “Lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world”, and “my sheep hear my voice”, we are “the sheep of his pasture”, and Jesus Christ separates the sheep from the goats when he judges the nations. But sheep are also dumb and “we all, like sheep, have gone astray.” Why not a fox? After all, Jesus called Herod a fox. But this was not to define his personality trait, but his character, in other words, he was cunning. Cunning is a strength, and sure enough Herod led with it. Likewise the sloth is used in Scripture as character flaw for someone who is lazy and will not work. If you must use another animal besides lion, why not use deer? After-all, deer is used in spiritual sense and is in Scripture: “as a deer panteth after water, so my soul pants for thee”? Problem is, once again, this is defined as a character trait too, but inversely to how fox and sloth are described, because this is a positive character trait, not a personality trait. Why does Trent and the others select mammals in their personality theories? Why not a reptile? Why not a bird or fish? Why not an insect or trilobite? And why a Golden Retriever for a dog? Why not a toy poodle or Saint Bernard or a Pit Bull (a great protector which can be a ferocious attacker but also gentle, kind and loyal to its master)? And why a domesticated dog vs. a wild dog? And why not have all four major delineations of traits be dogs? Why not four horses? After all, if you want to be biblical, the Apocalypse is described as four horses in Revelation, and four horses are used in Zechariah as well in describing judgments on the earth. Who decides what animal to pick and how to measure the traits or calibrate them? And by what authority? Conclusion: the DISC profiling and all temperament personality profiling is all based on pagan superstition, evolution, magic arts, numerology, and divination. And it is as Paul would say “science, falsely so called.” Even the Meyers Briggs Temperament Profiler, also promoted by the AOG has a logo banner on their site called the Philemon Foundation, so named after Carl Jung's demonic spirit-guide. But this has not stopped the leaders of the Assemblies of God, Southern Baptists, Lutheran, and many other denomination, and the National Association of Evangelicals, whose New Life Church is also a client of DISC (Proof: http://www.discinsights.com/cyber/scripts/clients.asp), and of course, Rodney Cox of Ministry Insights, and Lifeway Resources one of his clients, including Doug Akers who blasphemously called Cox's LFYS profile impact a “Divine Revelation”:


Your DISC WHEEL mirrors ENNEAGRAM WHEEL mirrors the MANDALA WHEEL.   But the only spiritual wheels that Christians should focus on are the Wheels of Elijah’s Chariot, and Wheels of Ezekiel’s Vision the Lord gave him.  All other wheels are fake wheels and will not take your chariot anywhere except off the cliffs into the Abyss.

In addition to addressing the reality of what your DISC based profiling is, in my documentary DEMOLITION OF DISC,  and is also addressed it in my video documentary MAKING MERCHANDISE OF MEN’S SOULS:


I only wish I had known about your DISC/LFYS Temperament Divination, in writing my original documentary.  But I hope and pray it is not too late to add it and warn everyone. And perhaps, even you will take heed.

Sincerely in Christ,

James Sundquist

From: James Sundquist <rock.salt@verizon.net>
Subject: More regarding Rick Warren and Saddleback
Date: August 23, 2019 at 11:08:25 AM EDT
To: Rodney Cox - Founder/President Ministry Insights <rcox@ministryinsights.com>
Cc: information@ministryinsights.com, info@ministryinsights.com

Dear Rodney and Leigh,

I need to alert and equip you with the fact that Warren’s false claim about his PDL book and his Jung-based SHAPE personality profile are not the only problems with his teachings vs. Scripture.  So before you continue pumping gas into his tank, you need to know about all of his false teachings I have documented in my two books on Rick Warren which were published by Southwest Radio Church Ministries at swrc.org.  So I am going to give you the links with the complete texts of the two books.

My first book:

WHO’S DRIVING THE PURPOSE DRIVEN CHURCH?

My second book:

RICK WARREN’S GLOBAL PEACE PLAN VS. SCRIPTURAL TEACHINGS ON PEACE

I pray that you take heed.

btw, Did you ever ask Rick Warren about his false claim?  His claim defrauds every single author and publisher whose sales ranking legitimately holds the #1 Ranking, or ranking that is higher than Warren’s book as well as every customer who purchased his book believing his claim was true.   If I am the one bearing false witness, please show me a single reputable book sales ranking list which depicts Warren’s PDL book as #1. 

And wouldn’t you be concerned that the 120 Saddleback Staff Members who took your profile would even tell the truth in your profile, since they continue to promote both the false teachings in Warren’s PDL book and outside of the book and have never repented for promoting and perpetuating the myth that Warren’s PDL book is not the bestselling nonfiction hardback book in history?  If truth is disposable re PDL book why wouldn’t it be in taking your LFYS profile?  How could you have confidence in the veracity of the results?  And why would you continue to list Saddleback as a client, in light of the revelations about him that might stumble a future client?

I also could not find in your Ministry Insights description, the most important element that should be in any questioning of a church member or staff, or laying hands on them to become an elder, and that is the Holy Spirit.  The Holy Spirit is what convicts a person both when they become a Christian as well as anytime they sin after becoming a Christian.  And guess what the Holy Spirit does, it does not identify your strengths, but rather your weaknesses, i.e. your sins, not your strengths.  Then the Holy Spirit gives you strengths of Gifts of the Holy Spirit which has nothing to do with your already existing internal strengths.  The source of our strength is EXTERNAL not INTERNAL.  Read the Book of Nehemiah where it says the “the joy of the Lord is my strength”.  And in building the wall, he possessed the sword and the sword of the spirit.  I can’t find anything in the Book of Nehemiah where he or any of his fellow soldiers and craftsmen took a personality profile to identify their strengths.  I was trained un the military in missile maintenance. One of the things I learned in military strategy in battle and war was that you have to be constantly vigilant to locate where are the weakest points of your line of defenses then redeploy sufficient forces and weapons to shore up those lines. Nehemiah did the same thing in rebuilding the wall. In addition to the literal sword he possessed the Sword of the Spirit the Word of God.  We would never pump gas into the enemy’s tanks like you are doing with Saddleback and that’s assuming your LFYS is even real gas. But I would not have needed military training to know not do do that.   But I can’t seem to locate any personality profile he used to win the battle and complete his mission.  And the Apostle Paul talks about following him as he follows Christ, not leading.  The Holy Spirit does the leading.  And I don’t see any of Paul’s list of the weapons of our warfare in your LFYS.  And I don’t see any mention of Satan and his devices we war against in your LFYS profile.

You love your DISC wheel. But it’s the squeaky wheel that gets the oil i.e., the weakest point.  As a music teacher I focus on the weaknesses of my students to help them i.e., the chords they don’t know yet and need to know not their strongest chords they already know.  Instead of thanking me for the warning you, you come back with 120 members of Saddleback staff, why you are equipping them  so they can perpetuate the PDL sales myth and the host of other false teachings they promote, making you an accomplice?

One more thing.  You listed Willowcreek Church as one of your clients. Did you know that they have historically used MBTI (also based on Jung)?  And there are other problems there too which I wrote in this article:

WILLOWCREEK CHURCH & BILL HYBELS’ THEOLOGY 
Biblical Christianity or the Church of Laodicea?
By James Sundquist

Also see this more recent development on Willow Creek:

and


and


Finally, I would like to address your use (misuse) and fatally flawed corrupt interpretation of I Corinthians 12:17-18 in your book and your revised edition:

“If the whole body were an eye, where would be the sense of hearing? If the whole body were an ear, where would be the sense of smell? “
I Corinthians 12:17

“But now God has placed the parts, each one of them, in the body just as He wanted.” I Cor 12:18

To understand the complete context of this passage, here the critical components of this passage you omitted that precisely qualify the Scripture you quote. One of the hermeneutic principles states that the specific rules the general. This entire Chapter 12 is talking about the Gifts of the Holy Spirit, as verse one makes clear. None of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are in your DISC Wheel. The Gifts were giving by God. Since when does the recipient of a gift pay for it by having to take a personality test in order to discover it? And the Holy Spirit is not even named in your DISC Wheel. And for members of the one Body of Christ to even be able to obtain any of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit, they must first repent as Acts 2:38-39 makes clear. Repentance is non-existent in your DISC Wheel. The other passage where Paul defines the Gifts of the Holy Spirit, Romans 12:6, Paul states that these Gifts were given are also not in your DISC Wheel, and the gifts differ according to God's grace not according to a personality profile. And the grace of God is also non-existent in your DISC Wheel, let alone credit given to the giver of these diverse gifts. Your profile's first letter L standings for Leading, implying if not outright claiming that everyone should lead from their strengths. But Paul says only some lead. And those that lead must meet the biblical criteria to qualify as and elder or teacher, also non-existent in your DISC Wheel.. Then the end of the I Corinthians Chapter 12, Paul gets even more forensic in detail:

“27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.” I Corinthians 12:27-31

But all of these gifts have existed for two thousand years without your personality profile or ANY personality profile. Secondly, even if personality profiles were accurate, they are still mediums that must be rejected by Christians because they are all based on and derived from divination. Christians are forbidden from practicing magic arts. So it isn't just the contents, but the means that is a colossal problem with LFYS and all personality profiles. And if you look carefully at the passage, there is NOTHING about strengths. But the Scriptural warning is not just saying Christians sin if they practice magic arts, or seek counsel from the ungodly (Marston) but won't even enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Therefore, those who truly fear the Lord must warn everyone not engage in these practices, let alone pay for them, and promote them. One of the Gifts of the Spirit is Discerner of Spirits. Were a Christian who possesses this gift to test the spirits of DISC they would discern the spirits behind DISC. But one could detect and then reject these spirits by simply reading history of DISC and the very words and lifestyles of these original authors such as Marston and Jung.

If your LFYS is compulsory for employer or church members of your clients, like Rick Warren requires of his Saddleback Church members who are forced to take his SHAPE Assessment, which almost every Christian denomination has used, it is bad enough to promote sin or tempt them to commit sin. And I have yet to see a single church tell their members and employees that SHAPE is rooted in Carl Jung's temperament divination personality theory. Nor do they tell them you have to be “normal” for the profile to work, meaning it couldn't work on “abnormal” members of the One Body of Christ. Nor do the pastors tell them what the definition of “normal” is or tell them no such distinction even exists in Scripture. But it is all the more terrible to force them. You don't force your clients to purchase LFYS, but if you sell it to them knowing they are forcing it on Christians, you still share in their guilt because this is both spiritual and financial extortion. Bad enough if the test is free. But if they have to pay for it, it compounds the sin.

I can't help but think of Moses who was the chief spokesman for the Ancient Israelites. But he had speech impediment. So public speaking was NOT his strength. In fact it was one of his greatest weaknesses. So did God make a mistake and pick the wrong person to lead? So why wouldn't you entitle your profiling “Leading From Your Weakness”? Thank God, he didn't have or take your LFYS test!

Every single trait identified in your DISC Wheel:

could just as easily apply to any pagan who is not a New Creation, as it would to describe a Christian who is a New Creation in Christ. One of the ways Christians are seduced into taking profiles that describe us as animals, is not just to find out what animal we are like, but to find out what person in the Bible they resemble, when in fact personality profiling doesn't fit any person in the Bible, let alone an animal. This is a classic case of what the Apostle Peter warned of and that is that Scripture is not open to private interpretation, let alone as a means of financial gain that the Apostle Paul warned about, to have to pay money to find out what animal or Bible character you resemble or category you must be in order to serve or better serve the Body of Christ. Speaking of the Apostle Paul, what do you suppose he would have to say about William Moulton Marston, DISC Founder and Inventor? Paul taught submission, but Marston meant bondage when he talked about submission. Paul taught that wives should be in submission to their husbands. But Marston wanted women to rule the world. Paul taught that only men could be elders to rule (or to use your first word in your personality profile “Lead”) over the church. Were it even possible for Marston to become a member of a church, he should be disqualified as a reprobate in any God-fearing church. He was not a saint! And if somehow he were to manage to become a member, Paul would issue the same church discipline he commanded the church in Corinthians, and that is expel the immoral brother.

In conclusion, I believe the only question that remains is if you will repent of using DISC/LFYS and obey John the Baptist's command to make restitution, and make the same offer Zacchaeus made to Jesus, and that is pay back 4 times the amount you defrauded every customer? If they paid $26.95 for your LFYS Profile, then that would calculate out to $107.80 (less if quantity discounts) per person.

ADDITIONAL RESOURCES:

DEMOLITION OF DISC

KEN BLANCHARD DISC & ENNEAGRAM CONNECTIONS
& HIS RICK WARREN AFFILIATION
http://sonquest.blogspot.com/2005/07/ken-blanchard-disc-he-who-is-not-from.html

An Analysis Of
SIMA MOTIVATIONAL ABILITIES PATTERN (HEREAFTER MAP) vs. SCRIPTURE
by James Sundquist

ADDENDUM: JAMES SUNDQUIST / KEN VOGES EXCHANGE:

Dear Ken,

Thank you for your time on the phone and for responding my email.  But I must admit astonishment that you would validate DISC by Dr. John Geier and not Marston.

But without Marston, there would be no DISC.  It is true that Marston did not create an actual personality assessment test, and that it was Geier who designed the first DISC test.  But Geir, in his own words stated that he validated DISC on Marston.  And in his own words he simply refined it.  He did to Marston’s DISC what Myers-Briggs did to Jung’s Personality Temperament Divination personality theory and that is convert the theory into an actual psychometric test, as Jung did not have a test you could take.  So it could not be more clear that Geir’s DISC is built on the foundation of Marston’s DISC.  So consumed was Geier with Marston, that purchased all of the copyrights on Marston’s book.

And even you stated in  your response to me that Geir and Marston’s DISC are integrated:
"But when I came into contact with John Geier’s refinement of the DiSC material popularized by William Marston, it was evident that Geier and Marston had come up with a more comprehensive explanation of personality traits than the four-temperament model.” [emphasis mine]
The source of this quote is in Martin and Deidre Bobgan’s book which also extensively addresses Geier and your use and promotion of DISC.  Here is the entire book online:

But your statement totally contradicts your email response to me.

FOUR TEMPERAMENTS, ASTROLOGY & PERSONALITY TESTING By Martin and Deidre Bobgan (addresses Ken Voges and Dr. John G. Geier)
Also see:

Martin Bobgan Response to Ken Voges and Mike Kempainen:
But I also realize that I should have sent you my original documentary on DISC.  Here is the link:


And here is my documentary on DISC and ENNEAGRAM:
KEN BLANCHARD DISC & ENNEAGRAM CONNECTIONS
& HIS RICK WARREN AFFILIATION
http://sonquest.blogspot.com/2005/07/ken-blanchard-disc-he-who-is-not-from.html

I am glad that you state that the Bible is the inspired Word of God by which you determine the validity o f any behavioral tool.  But the very Bible of which you speak prohibits mediums, sorcery, divination, and magic arts, and seducing spirits that produced the Great Apostasy.  As to Jung and Marston, Paul would say to avoid false teachers and mark them, not promote them, as he would also say about both of reprobate lifestyles of both Jung and Marston, not build an empire on their teachings.   Both were antichrist in their teachings, this is not my definition, but the Apostle John’s.  Therefore, I pray that you actually heed and obey the very Bible you say is the inspired Word of God.

One final question for you.  Do you tell every Christian you give your test to the whole truth about Marston and Jung, and if not will you now do so?

Kindest regards in Christ,

James Sundquist

On Aug 27, 2019, at 11:56 AM, krvoges@aol.com wrote:

James,

I have reviewed the attached document.  

FYI - I consider the Bible the inspired Word of God  is my basis for determining whether any behavior tool has validity.  I believe that the DISC model as validate by Dr. John Geier's work not William Marston is the basis of my connecting biblical characters to DISC behavior styles.

Trust this helps.

Ken Voges 

From: James Sundquist <rock.salt@verizon.net>
To: krvoges <krvoges@aol.com>
Sent: Tue, Aug 27, 2019 8:53 am
Subject: Final Draft of Report on Rodney Cox and John Trent
Dear Ken Voges,

Because I discuss you and your DISC based Personality Profile in this report, I invite and entreat you to preview it, which I have attached.

Sincerely in Christ,
James Sundquist

FOUR TEMPERAMENTS, ASTROLOGY & PERSONALITY TESTING By Martin and Deidre Bobgan (addresses Ken Voges and Dr. John G Grier)

Martin Bobgan Response to Ken Voges and Mike Kempainen:

Dear Ken,

I forgot to include the proof from Geier himself from his website that his roots for DISC are Marston.  So here is the statement in his bio:

"Dr. Geier further explained human personality through the use of D-I-S-C and the integration of temperament, character and behavior. His original work is the only one that is rooted in the earlier contested work of William Moulton Marston (1893-1947). Dr. Geier's research efforts brought credibility to Marston's theory, in the use of Dominance, Inducement, Submission, and Compliance. To ensure the recognition of Dr. Marston's efforts, Dr. Geier acquired the copyright of Marston's collected works from his widow, and wrote a comprehensive introduction to support the perceived trait approach in describing human relationships.”
Source: https://www.geierlearning.com/author.html
So to adhere to the very Scriptures you champion and the words of Jesus himself who said a thorn bush can’t produce figs, the roots of your profile and Grier’s is Marston.  Grier refined Marston’s DISC, but you can refine a thorn bush all you want, but it remains a thorn bush.  Marston is a thorn bush, therefore it can’t produce figs and it can’t produce the fruit of the Holy Spirit.  I wrote a parable on Poison Ivy about people thinking they can put the leaves in a green salad.

Sincerely in Christ,
James
From: James Sundquist <rock.salt@verizon.net>
Subject: p.s. #2
Date: August 28, 2019 at 12:50:14 PM EDT
To: krvoges@aol.com

Dear Ken,

Here is more evidence that all DISC Profiles are based on Marston’s DISC:

"The DISC Model continues to be one of the most popular four quadrant behavioral models. All DISC assessments are based on the research of William Moulton Marston Ph.D. (1893-1947).”  Source: https://internalchange.com/what-is-disc/

Note that Greir’s is not even named.  William Clark preceded Greier.

"The Emotions of Normal People and the Beginning of D.I.S.C.

All DISC tests and assessments are based on the research and the DISC Theory of William Moulton Marston, Ph.D. (1893-1947).”

Conclusion, it is impossible for your Profile to not be rooted in Marston’s DISC.  And note further that Marston was greatly influenced by Jung another false teacher and occultist who directly admits his personality theory came from a spirit-guide (demon) named Philemon.

Sincerely in Christ,


James

On Aug 28, 2019, at 4:35 PM, krvoges@aol.com wrote:

James,

I don't disagree with you regarding Marston as the originator of the DISC model of behavior.  My selecting of John Grier was base on his empirical data which I could test against Scripture.  I found that his Library of Classical Patterns did that by identifying nine specific categories of each classical pattern. In each classical pattern of Peter, Paul, Moses and Abraham, I was able to find Scripture passages that validated each specific behavior and how to create an environment to motivate them. 

However, my most important discovery was the parallel of environmental strategies of the DISC model with the responses of God the Father to Moses and Abraham and Jesus to Peter and Paul. It is in these case studies that I developed a template for others to use in writing a sentence on how to best relate to them on a personalized basis.

My passion is to help individuals discover their biblical model, study their character and be able to personalize a environmental strategy based on Scripture and validated by the DISC model of behavior in determining how to love one another. (Matthew 22:39) 

I hope this helps in understanding how I use the model.

I remain...

In His Grace,

Ken

Dear Ken,

Thank you again for responding and explaining your position in integrating Scripture and Psychology and Personality Profiling.  See my Psychology vs. Bible Chart, Appendix A in my book “Who’s Driving the Purpose Driven Church?” at:


But if one of the Reformation 5 Solas says Scripture Alone is Sufficient for faith and morals (i.e., behavior) for the correcting, rebuking, training in righteousness, EVERY good work and the perfecting of saints, even if Geir’s data is correct, what does it add to Scripture that is not already in Scripture?  And what do we lack with Scripture alone? Was Geier a Christian?  What church was he a member in Minnesota?  I never took a personality profile to find my calling in Christ, or correct my behavior.  The empirical evidence is my Eaglemasterworks website and the thousands of people I ministered to in concert and their testimonies.  Once when I was greatly discouraged because Christian music morphed and evolved into a contest, my closest friend and best man at our wedding once said to me: “Which is more important?  Ten thousand screaming fans, or one whole person from your ministry?”  The environment I needed to motivate me was not a personality profile, but those in need of comfort, healing, direction, salvation, restoration, repentance in churches, prisons, rest homes, memory care units (who would even be able to take a personality profile test), prisons, military installations, and the streets of New York and the subways.

In my 65 years in the faith (I came to the Lord at 7) I once heard a sermon on this Proverb I will never forget that encapsulates what has happened to Christianity in seeking other teachers and voices in psychotherapy and mysticism.  That sermon was based on Proverbs 5:8-10 and Proverbs Chapter 7:

 "Keep your way far from her,and do not go near the door of her house, lest you give your honor to others and your years to the merciless, lest strangers take their fill of your strength, and your labors go to the house of a foreigner.”  Proverbs 5:8-10 [emphasis mine]
What struck me like lightning was the warning to not even go near the door of a harlot who seduced the man with smooth talk and persuasive words.
What struck me was that once you enter the door you probably will never exit, and sure enough that is empirically what I have observed in fulfillment of Christ’s own warning of many (a host) coming in his name deceiving the multitudes.  And all of the NT Apostles warned that the enemies of Christ would not be outsiders but wolves in sheep’s clothing INSIDE the church. A sorcerer approached Paul and even accurately EMPIRICALLY described what Paul was doing.  So why he didn’t applaud her and tell all of people witnessing this to listen to her, after all “all truth is God’s truth” right?  WRONG.  He sharply rebuked her.  But what are myriads of Christians doing?  They are swarming to the harlot of psychology without the slightest qualm, and even compel Christians to take these tests to be members, such as Rick Warren and his SHAPE profile.

And in a supreme irony, it is that this Proverb mentions your strength when people like Rodney Cox sells and promotes a personality profile how to “Lead From Your Strengths”, when in fact it is his very profile that takes their fill of your strength.  Regarding “DISC model of behavior," modeling whose behavior?  Marston himself who practiced menage trois and other perversions of adultery?  Jung, who was also infamous for his moral turpitude.  Marston a supposed expert on “Normal” behavior, could not be more abnormal in his behavior.  Yet Christians are not phased or don’t even know this, or care.  And those who do know refuse to tell them.  Our foundation for model of behavior must be none other than Christ, the Rock, no other foundation.  Therefore, Marston and Jung must be rejected!  We are not called to “relate” to the all of the names people listed in the Bible, but take heed from their behavior and learn from the consequences (and curses) from their disobedience, and obey the Apostles and Prophets.  And when I sin, the Holy Spirit convicts me not a personality profile or any profile of a biblical character.  I agree that we are in his Grace, but that’s the point, it is by God’s grace go we all not by relating to someone else’s experience.  Our behavior must be determined by the didactic clear commands in Scripture, not subjective eisegesis that may or may not even be true.

You indicated you would not warn or even equip those you give your personality test to the true nature and history of Marston.  But Paul commands us to expose the deeds of darkness in Ephesians, not conceal them.  Or in the case of Rick Warren, simply deny that his profile is based and rooted in Carl Jung.  (See my color slides).

I would like to cite Thomas Ice, who addressed your integrating biblical characters with personality profiling:
August 28, 2019:
"James:
As a guy who worked for and with Tim LaHaye for over 25 years, my problem, regardless of how many personality types, is trying to identify personality types from the Biblical narrative.  Regardless of a personality type, the Bible deal with things from a moral or ethical perspective.  Never are issues in the Bible a “personality conflict.”  It is a matter of sin, right and wrong, truth or error.  When these people start blaming behavior on personality traits then you have quit looking at issues from the framework of the Bible by introducing a whole new paradigm that creates a non-biblical perspective.  They end up excusing  or classifying moral behavior as a personality trait and thus excuse it.
Well, those are some of my thoughts on it.  Don’t care about the classifications they come up with since it is a non-issue when it comes to biblical morality and behavior
Maranatha,
Tommy Ice
Executive Director
The Pre-Trib Research Center
        Professor of Bible and Theology
        Calvary University
15800 Calvary Road
Kansas City, MO  64147
(940) 597-8811
www.pre-trib.org
www.calvary.edu”
Finally, I agree with Matthew 22:39 that you cite.  But neither Jung nor Marston obeyed this Scripture.  And true love, is defined by the Apostle John as obedience to Scripture.  Christians have been able to do this for the two thousand year history of the Church and will continue to do so until the End of Age, without ever even knowing about or ever taking a personality profile.  You point out Biblical characters we should study.  But it is their character we study not their personality profile.  And God is a jealous God, if I imbibe authors of personality profiling, it is impossible to “love the Lord with all your heart mind and soul because Isaiah warns that God shares his glory with none other.  And neither Marston nor Jung even defined or correctly even understood the true nature and definition of the soul, in fact they perverted it.  Plus “the natural man understands not the things of the spirit”,  Marston and Jung were natural men, therefore, they could not understand the things of the spirit.  Neither of them had the mind of Christ, instead they had reprobate minds. They did not possess the fear of the Lord, which is the beginning of wisdom.  So if they didn’t even get the beginning right in their journey, then all they could do continuing to travel down that road is go astray and lead multitudes astray, as they most certainly have done, and Geir has done by exalting him.  So we should consume them anyway?  Promote them? Make merchandise of men’s souls with them?  Feed God’s sheep with this “another gospel”?  God forbid!  In conclusion, I would use Matthew 22:36-39 as one of best verses and commandments of Jesus Christ to expose and warn the whole church about the spiritual harlotry of personality profiling and masquerading it as biblical.  The most troubling thing about your response is that it gives the impression that everyone who did not learn to relate to characters in the Bible via DISC Profiling empirical data somehow lack something, or are missing out, when Scripture says clearly that with Scripture alone we lack NOTHING!  Martin Bobgan cites a number of scientific scholars that prove DISC profiling is NOT scientific.  Rather it is, as Paul said, "science falsely so called.”

I leave you with these Scriptures that refute your arguments and that you will hopefully heed and bring this light to the members of your congregation and all of your disciples.
         “The Lord is my Shepherd I shall not want"
       (meaning shall lack  nothing)  Psalm 23:1
(It is clear the Lord was not the Shepherd of either Jung or Marston.)
“The young lions do lack, and suffer hunger: but they that seek the LORD shall not want any good thing.” Psalm 34:10
“And my God will meet all your needs according to his glorious riches in Christ Jesus.” Phil. 4:19
“Therefore, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him, 7 rooted and built up in him and established in the faith, just as you were taught, abounding in thanksgiving.  See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits[a] of the world, and not according to Christ.  Colossians 2:6-8
“We continually ask God to fill you with the knowledge of his will through all the wisdom and understanding that the Spirit gives, so that you may live a life worthy of the LORD and please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God,” Colossians 1:9-10
"If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given him”. James 1:5

Sincerely in Christ,

James

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